The above graph is adapted from Limits to Growth, Recalibrated (2023). It is not a hard and fast prediction, but rather the product of a model with 50 years of high correspondence with developments. We are, at present, near the far side of growth curves, with several in apparent plateau. Post peak modelling does not factor in such disruptive factors as climate change, or social unrest and systems failures consequent to economic collapse.

We are on the modeled brink of sudden declines in food and industrial output curves. At the same time, the US Government and international relations are being abruptly reworked. This strikes me as 'perfect storm' conditions for abrupt, global economic collapse, triggering the onset of TEOTWAWKI.

I fear a hard landing... no 'reboot' or 'transition' to a lower functioning economy. I urge high priority preparation now.

I've got a short glossary of terms at the bottom of this page... if you come across an unfamiliar term, please scroll down and check it out.

Information I'm including or pointing to doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it. Rather, I've found it to be stimulating and worthy of consideration. I'm sure you'll exercise your own judgement... we're nothing if not independent! 8)

Monday, February 3, 2025

EROEI / EROI For Doomies

 

“Pyramid of Energetic Needs” representing the minimum EROI required for conventional oil, at the well-head, to be able to perform various tasks required for civilization. The blue values are published values, the yellow values increasingly speculative. 

Chart from “EROI of Global Energy Resources Preliminary Status and Trends” Jessica Lambert, Charles Hall, Steve Balogh, Alex Poisson, and Ajay Gupta State University of New York, College of Environmental Science and Forestry

Oh, the ER-O-I was a'fallin'
And the win was gettin' low...

-- Adapted from the ER-I-O (Erie Canal) folksong


EROEI / EROI For Doomies

Energy Return On  Energy Invested, a.k.a., Energy Return OInvested is a core concept for those of us thinking of our present and near future. But it doesn't travel alone. Here, I'll try to lay out a useful set of related concepts, their dynamics and consequences.

Useful terms

EROEI -- The ratio of an amount  of energy divided by all necessary investment of all EI inputs (expressed as energy) required for ER outputs (energy extraction, refinement, production and distribution... from here on, I'll use the shorthand production for all of these).

Historically, EROI has fallen and is falling significantly. Lower numbers tend to account for more, often overlooked inputs.

Any complex, adaptive system (e.g., a living organism or an economy) requires an EROEI > 1 by some significant factor as its minimum for survival. This is in accord with the laws of thermodynamics, and remains undisputed.

NOTE: EROEI is often expressed as a ratio (EI/ER) or a proportion (usually EI:ER).

Gross Energy -- The total amount of extracted energy under discussion before adjusting for its production overheads.

Net Energy -- The amount of energy left over from Gross Energy after its production overheads.

Surplus Energy -- The amount of energy left over from Net Energy after systemic overheads (all the necessaries to support life). This is what's left over for electives.

NOTE: Gross and Net Energy can increase, even while EROI is falling. This has been the case, historically, prior to the present moment.

Peak Energy -- The point at which approximately half of energy resources have been extracted. At this point, the easy pickings have been picked and the (energy) cost of production for remaining, harder-to-access resources rises. From this point, required energy investment for extraction rises exponentially and EROI accordingly falls.

For further reading, see Hubbert Curves, which describe the prospects of any given resource being commercially extracted, and have successfully predicted Peak Energy for any given energy resource.

NOTE: Peak Energy from fossil fuels could conceivably become moot in the face of new energy sources, but for the foreseeable future, they are dominant and likely to remain so.


Implications

By industry assessments, we already have- or are soon to enter post-Peak Energy. EI to produce energy from fossil fuels will increase exponentially (rapidly declining EROEI and Net Energy).

Falling EROEI consequent to rising production costs in a post-Peak Energy environment chews away at Net Energy in proportion to Gross Energy. Gross Energy may be increasing, but the available Net Energy (GE minus overheads) is an ever smaller fraction of the gross. Eventually, as necessary extraction investments increase, Net Energy falls toward zero. 

At the same time, should Gross Energy plateau or decline (as considerable data suggest is now or soon to be the case), Net Energy falls toward zero.

For us Doomies, this is an alarming double squeeze!

Net Energy is what pays for shit. All the stuff we really need or think we need. All the stuff we think of as wealth. It's what Finances it. Grows it. Builds it. Produces it. Maintains it. Moves it around... roads, rail and bridges, shipping and supply chains. Keeps the lights on, water clean and flowing. Education, entertainment, arts. Everything. When we run too low on Net Energy and things start to fail for want of energy, it's TEOTWAWKI.

But it's slow to unbuild. As the surplus dwindles, things start to be under energized and fail at the fringes. It's made worse by wealth inequity, where the powerful turn wealth-sharing flows toward themselves. The disenfranchised don't have the energy/wealth/power to organize and defend themselves, and become prey to 'strongmen' who use their plight to their own ends.

As the surplus energy available to global, industrial civilization decreases, we can foresee the following:

  • Failing infrastructures
  • Increasing pollution (from energy investments, lower quality fuels, less remediation)
  • Increasing climate instability
  • Resource conflicts

  • General impoverishment and reduction of total wealth
  • Reductions of social services and safety nets
  • A political turn toward far-right 'solutions'
  • Increasingly authoritarian state control
  • Increasing social unrest, protest, war and displacement

  • Cascading failures and contagion proliferate
  • Tipping points are reached
  • Collapse

All of these (including localized Collapses, world-wide) are the major headlines of our day.


*****

Objections and IMHO

Here are a few of the standard objections to the above...

There's Still Plenty of Fossil Fuel

Well, yes - about half, give or take, and that's a LOT - but that's not the point.

The point is that that post-peak half is trending toward a point where its production is prohibitively expensive. The half that's left is less accessible, of lower quality (e.g., tar sands and shale) and/0r plays out more quickly (e.g., fracking). All this means low EROEI.

This is a consensus view among industry analysts (vs. PR types). Only the timing and what might intervene is in debate.


Green Tech will Save Us

Well, maybe, but both the will and a pathway are absent. It appears to be a long shot.

One large problem is that the conversion of existing infrastructure and systems to 'renewables' is energy (and materially) intensive, with its own, lowish EROEI. It is unclear whether, even given the will and commitment to the cross-over, that there would be enough Net Energy available for the task, not to mention related environmental impacts of the project.

Time is another... whether we have time for such conversion before some critical tipping point is reached? But of course that applies to all paths forward. Still, we're talking best case in terms of decades.


Tech Tech will Save Us

Well, maybe, but...

Alternative energy projects at BAU (Business As Usual) scale are promising but distant. Nuclear fusion has just passed operational EROEI slightly greater than 1. That is to say, a skosh over break-even so long as we don't count the infrastructure, conversion (heat to electricity) or distribution costs. This after years and billions of dollars in hot pursuit of the dream.

Deep-bore, grid-scale geothermal may be the best possibility in the offing. In this tech, high energy beams (from gyrotrons developed for nuclear fusion) replace mechanical drilling techniques for much deeper wells reaching into high heat regions of the Earth's mantle. It's in development, uses existing infrastructure for conversion/distribution and should be boot-strappable. Unfortunately, it too appears be well behind schedule with very little success to report. Bootstrapping is predicted to require decades.

The Market will Provide

Well, no. The market has worked wonders, but is not magical.

That the market will provide is an economic article of faith among Cornucopians who believe (more or less) that, given a high enough demand in the face of low supply, and substitutions can and will be made. 

This may be theoretically true but is pragmatically false. For example, since e=mc^2, given enough market incentive and energy, any resource could be synthesized. In practice, the EI of this approach would be prohibitive.

Further, the implicit assumption is that solutions will be found and implemented on demand (i.e., just-in-time innovation and production) given enough market incentive. Problem is, this flies in the face of considerable experience with Scientific Method... discoveries are not made on a schedule, regardless of the incentive. Industrial scale production is also far from instantaneous. Other market forces, such as cost, are in opposition.

An example would be the fairly recent discovery of one of the side-effects of sildenifil citrate, originally studied as a treatment for high blood-pressure... despite vast market incentive and effort across centuries, this active ingredient of Viagra(R) is without an historical peer. It was observed serendipitously during clinical studies, and, approximately 12 years later, hit the market.

Who says it's all gloom and doom?


Bottom Line

The bottom line is that EROEI and related concepts are a lens for viewing the lifeblood of our global industrial economy and civilization.

That EROEI and Net Energy are falling with nothing assured in prospect would indicate that we are suffering from terminal, congestive heart failure.

Time to set our affairs in order.



For further reading, here's a good place to start.

9 comments:

  1. Increasing efficiency is the easiest fruit. You've often spoke about low energy firewood collecting as an example.

    When you have too much of something you waste it. In countries where energy is already expensive, they've adapted with more efficient vehicles, better mass transit and smaller homes.

    All this starts with a coherent high trust society. Nobody chooses Greyhound in America unless desperate as it's a horrific ride and the bus stations are dangerous. NYC Subways same.

    Wall of windows McMansions are energy hogs. Small well-built and properly designed FOR THE ENVIORMENT they are do far better. What's good in NH isn't as useful in Phoenix AZ.

    Allowing Mother-in-Law apartments instead of forcing everybody to "own" rent their own homes is a rolling homeless situation as taxes rapidly eat all of the fixed income seniors.

    Again, the coherent society issue. It wasn't that long ago that multi-generational families lived in the same house. Grandparents helped with children and so on. Less energy required than driving them to the day care and it's energy requirements.

    Food is a REAL PROBLEM as big Ag RUNS on Oil for fuel, FERTILIZER, Pesticides and Herbicides. We've outgrown the organic local farmers feeding the masses.

    How many meals until anarchy?

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    Replies
    1. Hi Michael,

      I agree on all points. The deeper problem is that the system isn't built to tolerate more than surface efficiencies. Growth is absolutely necessary for it to go forward. Bleak.

      RE Food... A search for "eating fossil fuels" turns up a lot of relevant material!

      Dave Z

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    2. Yep, my chickens, ducks, rabbits and garden are nowhere as "Productive" as Fossil Fueled farmers.

      I accept a lower egg production as to feed them without Tractor Supply bags of feed. They do well, seem happy to see me and my out of pocket costs is pretty low.

      Delete
    3. Sorry too quick. But I cannot produce enough with my efforts to feed more than one extended family (with their active help). The "Modern Farmer" can feed hundreds of families.

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    4. Whoops... I should have said "...tolerate NO more than surface efficiencies."

      You appear to be an experienced producer of food... I'd love to hear your thoughts on another post:

      https://teotwurbulence.blogspot.com/2017/04/forgetting-how-to-farm.html

      I, myself, am more in the nomadic / forager headspace, so am weighing in beyond my expertise.

      In terms of this post, I wonder if you can estimate the EROI of your food (personal time/energy, tools, materials, etc.)?

      My feeling is that being embedded in the global industrial economy spikes the investment in almost anything we do beyond calculation. For example, if we were to build our puny li'l vessels purely DIY, we'd have a good idea of our EROI. Building as we do with metal and power tools, industrial materials and on developed properties, we invest a vast swathe of the global industrial economic energy requirements. How vast? Hard to calculate, but undeniably toward the monstrous end of the spectrum.

      All part of the sticky wicket of modern life!

      Dave Z

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  2. While useful for measurements I'm not sure EROI is all that useful.

    What's the EROI of a healthy baby?
    Neuro development requires ample folate.

    So important that FDA mandated it in "fortified foods". Why? Because "modern" farming seems to have lost folate and many required vitamins and minerals.

    Yet a single free range chicken egg daily has ample folate for this.

    What's the EROI of a freshly planted apple tree or a Chinese style 5 pond garden pond system when first dug and fertilized?

    The EROI needs to be adjusted for the generations that IF they maintain it will enjoy it's gifts.

    Dirt farming is starvation level. Just about where your forager is in a low (nearly no) population with ample natural food interfaces (where water and earth meet).

    Permaculture is a "New Thing" unless you realize that Farmers of 40 centuries (worth reading the PDF) was written by King in 1911 when American farming experts went to China, Japan and Korea to see how they fed such massive populations on so little arable lands.

    But it's reading the land, seeing the annual inputs of rain, sunshine, temperatures and wind directions and forces.

    A lot of observation over years noted in a garden logbook as that Chinese saying about the faintest pencil is stronger than the best memory. The EROI for the initial years of effort not good. For his grandchildren maybe priceless.

    For your guerrilla gardening. Do your potato patches suffer from potato bugs or flea Bettles? French marigolds help a LOT and are easy to gather seeds for next plantings. In your pacific NW environment, I "Think" they might be self-seeding.

    My EROI of my chickens just 14 months ago wasn't good compared to the EROI of working as a door greeter at Walmart and BUYING EGGS. I made more from buying eggs at Walmart and letting my broody hens grow me very sellable Pullets for other hobby chicken folks.

    NOW Eggs are more expensive than my chicken notebooks show to my own pasture birds after giving myself a 20.00 and hour "Wage" for the time needed.

    So yes, maybe I do use some version of EROI.

    Did you want this here or over at that older posting you sent me to?

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    1. Hi Michael,

      I'd say there's quite a difference between cost / benefit analysis and EROI, though they're co-involved.

      EROI focuses on the energy investments and return to the exclusion of all else. Viable systems simply can't get by for long while losing energy. Even stars burn out.

      In terms of farming, it would probably focus on calories and maybe heating (woodlots, etc.)? A successful farm, like any system, has to have some good margin of EROI in addition to its other positive benefits.

      That being said, many other costs and benefits are vital considerations, as you point out.

      RE our GG plots... unfortunately, we're just a couple of plots/years into this, starting a day late and dollar short.

      I've HEARD that, if one keeps planting in the same spot here, root maggots show up and close ya down. Thanks for the suggestion of the French Marigolds!

      RE discussion... Yes, since this post focuses on energy considerations, I do think this might be better over at: https://teotwurbulence.blogspot.com/2017/04/forgetting-how-to-farm.html

      I'll also post the Guerilla Gardening interview with James-David Sneed (with whom I've lost contact) on this blog, and that might be another spot, especially for hands-off horticulture?

      Dave Z

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  3. https://sayerji.substack.com/p/joel-salatin-the-truth-about-mass

    Real hope from Regenerative Ag.

    Been to Polyface Farms, Joel is the real deal

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    Replies
    1. Hi Michael,

      I largely agree with that article's observations.

      Avian flu (and other zoonotic diseases) strike me as partly our doing:

      * Point of Origin - Naturally occurring disease pops up for its own reasons. But stressed populations, invasive contacts and habitat loss interfere with and exacerbate severity in the host population.

      * Spread - Pretty much ditto.

      * Susceptible Populations (Species jumps) - Yes, mass concentrations of highly stressed and artificially maintained populations is a recipe for disaster, not to mention our adjacency in those cases! The half-urban world is our own species' industrialized crowding.

      Don't look good from here.

      At the same, industrialized ag is how we feed our billions. Like economic growth and fossil fuels dependency, the system is built out on a limb. Alternatives are available, but I think it would take the will and resources to back off, both of which appear lacking.

      When the bough breaks, the cradle will fall...

      Dave Z

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Hey Folks... I'm not in a position to moderate comments. If discussion remains respectful and on topic, I welcome comments (passion okay). If it spins out of control, I'll have disallow them... I thank you for your civility.

I've opened comments to all 'Registered Users' (whatever that means!) to help weed out pesky spam.

- Dave Z